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Topic: a few things to remember if you're thinking of voting FF
artfoley (3,937 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 13:53	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
artfoley (3,937 Posts)	and of course This message has been edited - 27-apr-2007 @ 13:54
the puke (1,049 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 14:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
the puke (1,049 Posts)	Originally posted by artfoley: a few things to remember if you're thinking of voting FF Are you implicating Fianna Fail in the murder of santa claus there art....could there be another tribunal to investigate into these claims....
T_de_B (3,147 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 14:22	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
T_de_B (3,147 Posts)	When I first saw that gravestone, I was sure it had something to do with Ballyseedy. Just shows. I can be wrong too.
Ciaran careys hurling army (1,351 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 14:36	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Ciaran careys hurling army (1,351 Posts)	FIGHT FIGHT!!!
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 14:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	No pictures of Tony Killeen foley?
scalder (3,637 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 15:21	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
scalder (3,637 Posts)	TdB – FF have more than enough Republican blood on their hands too. FF have I believe burdened us for the next 50 years with an unsustainable and socially damaging development pattern with substandard housing and non existent infraststructure. All to the benefit of their developer mates who will stash the cash overseas while they lounge in their Costa villa. As someone who did support them in the past and in my naivety I feel let down and angery. Bottom line is its time for a change, time for FF ministers to know what its like to queue at Dublin airport, wait for a taxi and all the other day to day things they are insulated from in office. It will benefit the party and the country in the long run when the inevitably return to office they’ll be a little more humble and realise the issues we all face. So ABFF for me.
D-Day (1,197 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 15:42	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
D-Day (1,197 Posts)	brilliant art. no mention of foreign policy, what about CIA rendition flights?
MagpieTom56 (2,607 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 15:48	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
MagpieTom56 (2,607 Posts)
artfoley (3,937 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 16:27	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
artfoley (3,937 Posts)	Originally posted by D-Day: brilliant art. no mention of foreign policy, what about CIA rendition flights? lads feel free to add anything you feel pertinent
Pog Mahone (9,387 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 16:45	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Pog Mahone (9,387 Posts)	Someone stole old Banyon's pig. Blame it on FFers Pinched my cart and horse and rig. Blame it on FFers Someone robbed the Sydney mail, sacked the jailer and put him in jail, and if the potato crop should fail - they'll blame it on FFers Blame it on FFers, boys, blame it on FFers, shame, shame upon the name, blame it on - FFers If anybody steals a horse, blame it on FFers Anybody breaks the law, blame it on FFers If anyone does something new, or does what you would like to do, and if the troopers don't know who - they'll blame it on FFers Blame it on FFers, boys, blame it on FFers, shame, shame upon the name, blame it on - FFers. They're posted up on every wall. Blame it on FFers There's no crime too great or small, to blame it on FFers They killed a thousand so they tell, you know they're bound to burn in hell, I think I’ll steal a horse myself - and blame it on FFers
OneArmedMan (1,311 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 17:14	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
OneArmedMan (1,311 Posts)	The alternative is 2 Mayo men running the country.
Down On It! (439 Posts)	Posted: 27-Apr-2007 20:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Down On It! (439 Posts)	Originally posted by An Scoláire Bocht: I suppose previous Dublin Taoisigh have been exemplars of virtue. We've had Suitcase Taoiseach from the northside and Charvet Toaiseach from Donnycarney in recent times. I tell you what, rub your two brain cells together and you might make a fire.
Jester-WX (1,450 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 02:16	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Jester-WX (1,450 Posts)	art, from one Gorey man to another, well done. There is a lot of mud being thrown around in the lead up to this election. And as a grassroots FG member I'm not saying I think my party are holier than thou. The bottom line is that a government seeking a third term of office should be using their record in office as their re-election platform. This is not the current scenario. While there are those who might have swallowed the "More To Do" campaign 5 years ago, if they fall for it again, they will get the governmeny they deserve, i.e., $hite!!!!
Menapian. (1,498 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 11:50	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Menapian. (1,498 Posts)	Originally posted by scalder: TdB – FF have more than enough Republican blood on their hands too. FF have I believe burdened us for the next 50 years with an unsustainable and socially damaging development pattern with substandard housing and non existent infraststructure. All to the benefit of their developer mates who will stash the cash overseas while they lounge in their Costa villa. As someone who did support them in the past and in my naivety I feel let down and angery. Bottom line is its time for a change, time for FF ministers to know what its like to queue at Dublin airport, wait for a taxi and all the other day to day things they are insulated from in office. It will benefit the party and the country in the long run when the inevitably return to office they’ll be a little more humble and realise the issues we all face. So ABFF for me. Good post, scalder. It neatly encapsulates the discontent that is out there about the current government and the arrogance of some ministers. IMO, there will be a national scandal in about 10 or 20 years, when a lot of the housing stock, jerry-built during current times, will start to fall asunder. More tribunals will ensue and the finger of suspicion will point at the cosy relationship between FF and their pals in the property development and construction industry during our current era. Yep. Bertie himself needs to get a better perspective of the M50 gridlock, among other things, than from the seat of his helicopter. A couple of years back he was asked to comment on this and replied that the M50 looked as though it was flowing nicely from when he flew over it! To this day, it surprises me that none of the national media picked up on this comment. But in this instance, Bertie once again milked the goodwill that accompanies his image of being a common man and got away with it. I suppose the man who has the reputation for getting up early can stay in bed all day. I still reckon that there are more chickens due to come home to roost with regard to Bertie's buddies baling him out, and that the electorate were none too happy about this revelation, in spite of what the polls said. The reprisal of the Mahon Tribunal next week could be poorly timed from an FF point of view, with potentially more damaging revelations in the offing. Perhaps Bertie should have called the election earlier in the year when he still had the sympathy of enough people after blubbing on TV about his separation? ABFF is a good term - I'm suprised no-one ever took up on it before. Though, it's more ABPD in my own case. McDowell promised that if the PD's weren't radical, they would be redundant. Yiz are the epitome of the establishment now, boys and girls. So why don't yiz heed your leader's words and fcuk off! My prediction: an FF/Labour coalition with Rabbitte stepping aside for Brendan Howlin. This message has been edited - 28-apr-2007 @ 12:18
Glinnti Glasa (2,183 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 12:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Glinnti Glasa (2,183 Posts)	Originally posted by T_de_B: When I first saw that gravestone, I was sure it had something to do with Ballyseedy. Just shows. I can be wrong too. Ballyseedy is one reason Fine Gael will never get my vote.
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 13:06	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Originally posted by OneArmedMan: The alternative is 2 Mayo men running the country. Well we have had a Mayo FF man run the country before. Don't forget Charles Haughey was born in Castlebar!
MagpieTom56 (2,607 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 13:18	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
MagpieTom56 (2,607 Posts)	Originally posted by EvoMorales: No pictures of Tony Killeen foley? an angry killeen has the nack of blaming everyone but himself,(even his own staff)a quality perfected by FF
Posh Spice (1,383 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 14:26	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Posh Spice (1,383 Posts)	B][/QUOTE]Ballyseedy is one reason Fine Gael will never get my vote.[/QUOTE] Dont forget about Patrick Davern, George Plant and Michael Walsh being executed by their former colleague and founder of Fianna Fail, Eamon DeValera. Get off your high horse you hypocrite
scalder (3,637 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 19:41	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
scalder (3,637 Posts)	Ballyseedy is one of the saddest incidents for me in modren Irish history - one thing from it always stood out for me, one of the Free Staters called the IRA lads - f**kin Irish - thats how twisted they had become.
Posh Spice (1,383 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 19:44	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Posh Spice (1,383 Posts)	I'd say you'd believe anything
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 20:00	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Can anyone explain to me why Fianna Fail had no bother in taking the Oath of Allegiance in 1932 to enter the Dail, when they weren't prepared to take an Oath in 1922 to stop a Civil War? Also why do Fianna Fail call themselves the 'Republican Party'.
T_de_B (3,147 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 20:46	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
T_de_B (3,147 Posts)	Originally posted by EvoMorales: Can anyone explain to me why Fianna Fail had no bother in taking the Oath of Allegiance in 1932 to enter the Dail, when they weren't prepared to take an Oath in 1922 to stop a Civil War? Also why do Fianna Fail call themselves the 'Republican Party'. Excluding the pedantic point that Fianna Fáil were not formed until 1926 and therefore would have been unable to take the oath, even if they wanted to, a few points should always be borne in mind when discussing that particular civil war. The aftermath of the treaty negotiations and the subsequent Dáil debate on the treaty would never have led to civil war, were it not for the following; Collins had hitched his wagon at this time to the people who, in their own minds at least, had a stake in the part of the country we (and Collins) call the 26 counties and therefore a natural right to govern it. The fact that they were quite willing to govern on behalf of their acknowledged British betters, quite naturally offended many people who had in good faith fought the War of Independence for what they assumed would be an INDEPENDENT Ireland. The secondary fact that these usurpers of Irish political freedom, were quite prepared to be armed by their former colonial masters in order to enforce their "rights" to govern further alienated those who held to the principle of political freedom for the entire island and made fighting inevitable. The subsequent murders of any likely political leader on the Republican side (with the single costly ommission of DeValera) in the hostilities points up what was in fact a shoddy unprincipled coup d'etat by the Cosgrave faction with the active assistance of the British. In the light of this compliance, Collin's death in Aug 1922 at Béal na mBláth becomes even more suspect. Did he end up being merely a useful fool for the coup benefiiciaries to be dispoed of when victory was assured?. The subsequent success of Fianna Fáil as the major political force in this country is further proof if such were needed that the people in fact did back the Republican side and continued to so do despite the vicissitudes of the economic and 2nd World wars and economic strangulation by Britain.. Considering the efforts by Mulcahy et al to behead this Republican hydra, it was truly astounding that the Republicans took only 10 years to attain political power, which they have never since lost.
Posh Spice (1,383 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 21:04	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
Posh Spice (1,383 Posts)	"Collins had hitched his wagon at this time to the people who, in their own minds at least, had a stake in the part of the country we (and Collins) call the 26 counties and therefore a natural right to govern it."--HOW DID YOU COME TO THIS CONCLUSION FROM THE TREATY DEBATES? "The fact that they were quite willing to govern on behalf of their acknowledged British betters, quite naturally offended many people who had in good faith fought the War of Independence for what they assumed would be an INDEPENDENT Ireland."- WHO ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE BRITSIH WERE THEIR BETTERS? "The secondary fact that these usurpers of Irish political freedom, were quite prepared to be armed by their former colonial masters in order to enforce their "rights" to govern further alienated those who held to the principle of political freedom for the entire island and made fighting inevitable."- ARE YOU FOR REAL? ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING THAT THE CIVIL WAR WAS CAUSED BY THE PRO-TREATY SIDE BEING ARMED BY THE BRITISH ON ORDER TO END, YES END, THE CIVIL WAR??? "The subsequent murders of any likely political leader on the Republican side (with the single costly ommission of DeValera) in the hostilities points up what was in fact a shoddy unprincipled coup d'etat by the Cosgrave faction with the active assistance of the British. In the light of this compliance, Collin's death in Aug 1922 at Béal na mBláth becomes even more suspect. Did he end up being merely a useful fool for the coup benefiiciaries to be dispoed of when victory was assured?" YOU'RE GETTING RIDICULOUS NOW. "The subsequent success of Fianna Fáil as the major political force in this country is further proof if such were needed that the people in fact did back the Republican side and continued to so do despite the vicissitudes of the economic and 2nd World wars and economic strangulation by Britain." -YOU'RE CORRECT,THE PEOPLE HAVE VOTED FOR FF IN MASSIVE NUMBERS, BUT "THE REPUBLICAN SIDE" I.E. SINN FEIN AND THE IRA SLID INTO OBLIVION. Considering the efforts by Mulcahy et al to behead this Republican hydra, it was truly astounding that the Republicans took only 10 years to attain political power, which they have never since lost.--CONSIDERING ALL THE NONSENSE YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOVE ABOUT COUPS ETC, DO YOU NOT FIND IT ASTOUNDING THAT COSGRAVE AND CO HANDED OVER POWER TO DEVALERA PEACEFULLY? AS DEVALERA HIMSELF SAID "THEY WERE MAGNIFICENT" AS I SAID IN AN EARLIER POST "Dont forget about Patrick Davern, George Plant and Michael Walsh being executed by their former colleague and founder of Fianna Fail, Eamon DeValera. Get off your high horse you hypocrite"
twiceasnice97 (9,233 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 22:10	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
twiceasnice97 (9,233 Posts)	the thing about history is of course that it has the semblance of being `the truth` when it is in fact merely generally accepted myths for the most part. all men are giants when written in the pages of history and never have to hop over the ditch when short taken and scramble around for a dock leaf on the way home from the pub trying to claim that collins was some kind of imperial lackey is so laughable it doesn`t merit discussion as is the equally nauseating attempts to paint devalera as some kind of praying mantis obsessed with power at any cost. for me there are some very simple points we have been a wealthy country for more than ten years now through the endeavour of the people who go out to work every day and the entrepreneurs and others who have driven that prosperity. that prosperity was built by our generations parents educating us (kicking and screaming in my case) despite the fact that they were in many cases being screwed by the government for tax while large numbers of the population paid none. the governments most effective role in business is to get the fcuk out of the way in all areas other than environmental controls and workers conditions. in other words they have no role to play. they then take the taxes generated and resolve the issues they do have control over such as health, infrastructure, the environment , education and transport. fianna fail bar a minor two year hiatus have been in power for the last twenty or more years. the question is this. have they fulfilled their part of the bargain. the population as a whole have delivered their side but in every serious area where we rely on the government to do their job the have been down right sh1te. a large part of the ineffectivesness is berties obsession with geography when appointing ministers. five years on the back benchs would be good for fianna fail and in the long term good for the country. the idea that fianna fail light are going to come in and the world will collapse around our ears is true only in michael mcdowells head besides having him banging away in opposition might be worth it alone if losing power makes him any more looney. he`s as mad as a box of frogs at this stage.
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Posted: 28-Apr-2007 22:19	Quote Edit Delete Report Post Post Reply
EvoMorales (1,823 Posts)	Originally posted by T_de_B: Excluding the pedantic point that Fianna Fáil were not formed until 1926 and therefore would have been unable to take the oath, even if they wanted to, a few points should always be borne in mind when discussing that particular civil war. Did they not take an oath to enter the Dail shortly after Kevin O'Higgins assisanation denouncing the oath as an "empty formula"? Wouldn't it have been great if they could have treated the oath as an empty formula in 1922. Might have saved us a Civil War.

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